Wrap-arounds and body curves

[Crooked-Arrow]

Talk to me about the nuances of wrap-arounds, sleeves, and designs that sit in the curves of the body.

I am afraid to tackle these sorts of designs, but feel like if someone could point me in the right direction I may be able to catch on and begin testing the waters.

Things that baffle me:

Everyone is a different shape... Is there some sort of generality to the direction a tattoo might flow on any given part of the body? Any books for me to read?

How do you know where to break the design up for stencils??

How do you know you made it long enough before taking a turn? Did you turn in the right direction?

How do you translate measurements of someones body into a flat piece of paper?

My own Ideas: Can I...

Find someone with a similar body type and duct tape them all over the area, then cut the duct tape shape off of them, add cuts to lay it flat, and use that as a shape to work from? Is that silliness? Brilliance?

Its the only idea I have right now, I simply cannot wrap my head around it.

... Yes I did make that pun. XD

[JSH]

Dude, its not that hard at all.. If its such a problem for you then, use body stencils.. I created some years ago..

But believe it or not, we are all actually the same size, in terms of scale and proportion. It is scale you have to know about.. For instance I draw all of my half sleeves at roughly 9 inches high by 5 inches wide.. Now if the client is smaller and larger then if your a tattooist you will need to resize the line art stencil so it fits the client accordingly.. This is why scale is important. I bet you draw your designs to the actual measurement on paper don't you? Lol, why do that, draw them small and resize the image on the computer.. Anyhow for a wrap around I would make it up to 14 inches wide.. The average width of a guys arm is 10-14 inches.. If your a freaky muscle man then proportions and scale is going to change.. This is uncommon and could get more difficult.. So just get the exact measurements off the guy... Its not hard.

Also, because the design is going to wrap around a curve, doesn't mean you draw a design on a curve, or on a round surface, lol.. You use a flat surface... anyways, you can't teach this stuff, you either just know or you don't.... Good luck!!

[Crooked-Arrow]

Dude, its not that hard at all.. If its such a problem for you then, use body stencils.. I created some years ago..

But believe it or not, we are all actually the same size, in terms of scale and proportion. It is scale you have to know about.. For instance I draw all of my half sleeves at roughly 9 inches high by 5 inches wide.. Now if the client is smaller and larger then if your a tattooist you will need to resize the line art stencil so it fits the client accordingly.. This is why scale is important. I bet you draw your designs to the actual measurement on paper don't you? Lol, why do that, draw them small and resize the image on the computer.. Anyhow for a wrap around I would make it up to 14 inches wide.. The average width of a guys arm is 10-14 inches.. If your a freaky muscle man then proportions and scale is going to change.. This is uncommon and could get more difficult.. So just get the exact measurements off the guy... Its not hard.

Also, because the design is going to wrap around a curve, doesn't mean you draw a design on a curve, or on a round surface, lol.. You use a flat surface... anyways, you can't teach this stuff, you either just know or you don't.... Good luck!!

Thank you?

I mean. Everyone has to start learning somewhere. I feel somehow talked down to.

If you started with stencils, then it is fair that I should too. And you either just know or you dont by -=learning=- about it. |:

On the other hand, It is nice to know that most humans are relatively similar. I suppose I felt that a large womans arm might have a different curve to it to a small woman, or a buff man to a lanky one. But like you said, in that case I can get measurements.

I dont actually try to do everything exact on paper. I always resize. It is more the shape of a curve I was curious about. Say someone wants a tiger on their chest with the tail wrapping over the shoulder and around the arm.

I am just learning how to conceptualize how that might look flattened out, right? Because a stencil is flat when they print it at the shop.

Still though, I appreciate the feedback.

... dude.

[JSH]

Dude, its not that hard at all.. If its such a problem for you then, use body stencils.. I created some years ago..

But believe it or not, we are all actually the same size, in terms of scale and proportion. It is scale you have to know about.. For instance I draw all of my half sleeves at roughly 9 inches high by 5 inches wide.. Now if the client is smaller and larger then if your a tattooist you will need to resize the line art stencil so it fits the client accordingly.. This is why scale is important. I bet you draw your designs to the actual measurement on paper don't you? Lol, why do that, draw them small and resize the image on the computer.. Anyhow for a wrap around I would make it up to 14 inches wide.. The average width of a guys arm is 10-14 inches.. If your a freaky muscle man then proportions and scale is going to change.. This is uncommon and could get more difficult.. So just get the exact measurements off the guy... Its not hard.

Also, because the design is going to wrap around a curve, doesn't mean you draw a design on a curve, or on a round surface, lol.. You use a flat surface... anyways, you can't teach this stuff, you either just know or you don't.... Good luck!!

Thank you?

I mean. Everyone has to start learning somewhere. I feel somehow talked down to.

If you started with stencils, then it is fair that I should too. And you either just know or you dont by -=learning=- about it. |:

On the other hand, It is nice to know that most humans are relatively similar. I suppose I felt that a large womans arm might have a different curve to it to a small woman, or a buff man to a lanky one. But like you said, in that case I can get measurements.

I dont actually try to do everything exact on paper. I always resize. It is more the shape of a curve I was curious about. Say someone wants a tiger on their chest with the tail wrapping over the shoulder and around the arm.

I am just learning how to conceptualize how that might look flattened out, right? Because a stencil is flat when they print it at the shop.

Still though, I appreciate the feedback.

... dude.

Hey, sorry I didn't mean to seem like I was talking down to you.. I forget sometimes that there are actually some artists out there that are new to the business.. I've been doing it quite a while now, so I guess,, it just comes with experience.. I basically know the measurements of anybodies arms, legs, ears. or whatever just by looking at them .. If you want to get familiar with the way the body flows and see how your design will look, then I would suggest drawing your image on some transfer paper, and then just apply to the clients skin or if your creating a custom piece on here then try it out on a friend.. But with lots of practice, you will gain experience and it will become second nature to ya eventually...

[Crooked-Arrow]

Hey, sorry I didn't mean to seem like I was talking down to you.. I forget sometimes that there are actually some artists out there that are new to the business.. I've been doing it quite a while now, so I guess,, it just comes with experience.. I basically know the measurements of anybodies arms, legs, ears. or whatever just by looking at them .. If you want to get familiar with the way the body flows and see how your design will look, then I would suggest drawing your image on some transfer paper, and then just apply to the clients skin or if your creating a custom piece on here then try it out on a friend.. But with lots of practice, you will gain experience and it will become second nature to ya eventually...

(: Yeah its okay. I was simply hoping someone knowledgeable would have some super neat "trick" to solve the problem. But it sounds like stencils and practice is the only way to get this learning done. Sounds like it will take a while before it is second nature, but it is on the top of my "to learn" list. I haven't even bothered trying to tackle the wrap-around designs on this site because I dont want to get in over my head. I -=really=- want to participate in those though. Some of them sound fun, and I am interested in the design concepts.

[blackcatgirl]

People are not the same sizes at all!! Of course different people have different proportions, it is pretty simple math. We vary in bone lengths, muscles mass & fat, and curves of the body are different on everyone. Aside from drawing I have also made custom clothes most of my life, so I would definitely know.
When I am making a design that needs to fit around the body, I work alot with the client afterwards. Getting lots of measurements, and then photos of them with the linework laid out on them helps alot, but any finite adjusments on an interwoven piece (say a wraparound tribal or biomech forearm) really have to be done on site. Of course if the tattooist can't line up some simple pieces from the stencil, i would question visiting them to begin with.
It would be nice if there was a way for clients to leave messages on here, so if they are not getting inked right away & need adjustments to the stencil, we would be easy to reach.
There isn't really a trick to it I have found...having a few people around that you know & can try pieces on IF they are of similar proportions helps...sure better than looking at it on paper alone.
I suppose you could get ambitious with paper mache & build a body-part form if you have a big project to tackle & having trouble sizing =]

[blackcatgirl]

And by the way, YES your duct tape idea would work! Good for limbs mainly, or waistline---it is used alot on the costume industry to make a quick draft of someone's form.

[Crooked-Arrow]

And by the way, YES your duct tape idea would work! Good for limbs mainly, or waistline---it is used alot on the costume industry to make a quick draft of someone's form.

Yeah I tried making a duct tape shape for one of the contests on here, but Part of me still balked, feeling I wasnt -sure- of what I was doing. I didnt want to submit something and win with a unprepared design.

Heres my new question.

Example: A tiger wraps over the shoulder, and then its tail around the arm.

Do I do one Loooooooong design on one paper that is shaped in such a way that when it is blown up and cut out it fits perfect... OR

Do I design the chest and shoulder on one paper, and rather than one looooooong tail to be cut out, do I do a sleeve style design where the stencil has the tail running accross it horizontal over and over, and leave it up to the tattooist to line up those wraps and line up the sleeve to the butt of the tiger on the shoulder?

Do I make sense?

[blackcatgirl]

You make perfect sense...Personally I would do it in pieces, and mark with little dots for alignment on the pieces. I would treat the shoulder as one piece, if the tattooist decides to slice the stencil to account for body shape that's their business, but better to let the person who can see the curves deal with that. The piece coming OVER the shoulder would be tricky---depending on how wide it is, you might need 2 pieces there. Then I would to the arm piece, if it is a full upper arm wrap, your duct tape plan would be good for this. If it is a piece with background shading, I would leave that out on the sizing trial; just use your basic linework, or even a silhouette so you aren't wasting yoru time re-drawing endlessly.
You should definitely still send a regular NOT cut-apart version too, since sometimes it is hard to picture how something should sit if you didn't design it; so it's good for the tattooist to have a reference of the whole piece; I usually use my color version for this.

[Crooked-Arrow]

You make perfect sense...Personally I would do it in pieces, and mark with little dots for alignment on the pieces. I would treat the shoulder as one piece, if the tattooist decides to slice the stencil to account for body shape that's their business, but better to let the person who can see the curves deal with that. The piece coming OVER the shoulder would be tricky---depending on how wide it is, you might need 2 pieces there. Then I would to the arm piece, if it is a full upper arm wrap, your duct tape plan would be good for this. If it is a piece with background shading, I would leave that out on the sizing trial; just use your basic linework, or even a silhouette so you aren't wasting yoru time re-drawing endlessly.
You should definitely still send a regular NOT cut-apart version too, since sometimes it is hard to picture how something should sit if you didn't design it; so it's good for the tattooist to have a reference of the whole piece; I usually use my color version for this.

Wow thanks. That is a lot to take in. I think the gist of what I am learning here is that its a little okay for one line to not line up perfectly with another, so long as the tattooist can see which line -should- line up? I guess I felt I didnt want the tattooist to have to redraw anything. Is it possible in contests here to do a "Sizing trial" though?